Dikla and Asaf Epstein are power players in the digital arena, helping business owners leverage their marketing and operational activities.
We snagged them for a joint interview on business matters, so if you haven’t heard of them yet, we’re happy to be the introduction.
Meet the Epsteins
Dikla
Specializes in digital marketing for businesses, teaches 12 platforms for organic marketing, manages digital courses, and leads business owners to generate distribution lists through collaborations. Founder of ‘The Digital Stage,’ allowing businesses to gain exposure and grow distribution lists.
Asaf
Not a fan of titles, to say the least. Deals with building technical solutions for internet marketers, establishes online course websites, and constructs complex automation processes that streamline user experience for clients, as well as operational efficiency for business owners.
Working together or dividing forces? How does that work for you?
Asaf: “The right thing to say is that we work together, yet separately. Each of us has our own business and clients. Of course, there are mutual referrals if relevant.”
Dikla: “We call it a point of interface, it’s essentially a connection point between us. As Asaf mentioned, these are mutual referrals. Two completely separate businesses, but definitely a shared interface. For example, if a client comes to me in the course building phase and struggles with the technical side – I’ll refer them to Asaf, and vice versa, if he’s working with a client needing help with digital marketing.”
“At the beginning of our journey,” Asaf adds, “Dikla was doing a lot of things manually, and many tasks were repetitive, which was quite unnecessary. So, I built a process for her that starts even before the client’s payment, through onboarding, and continues even after payment completion. This way, if I have an idea to improve her process, I naturally suggest it. Most of the time, she gives me the freedom to act.”
I remember telling myself, ‘Wow, it seems like this interface will give me more than the email system I used back then,’ and I made the switch.
What was the need or challenge that led you to start working with smoove?
Asaf: “I have more experience of being self-employed, so it came from me. I participated in smooves’ first presentation a few years ago when everything was still in its infancy. And I remember telling myself, ‘Wow, it seems like this interface will give me more than the email system I used back then,’ and I made the switch. The need at the time was mainly for emailing and transitioning from a series of messages to an automation process. I don’t think smoove was just an email system back then, but rather a marketing automation system. Today, all processes, even if they’re just message series, are built in automation through smoove. This allows for many more things like conditions, cancellations, customer parameter changes, etc.”
“Yes, there are still things I miss, and I make sure to voice them occasionally,” he confesses with a smile (he knows one of our favorite things is customer feedback).
“In general – the integration aspect with additional systems, Airtable, Google Sheets, payment systems – allows for a comprehensive and inclusive process for every need. Even if it’s very specific, like a webinar or workshop registration, it can be made more efficient, both in terms of the process and the outcome.”
When Dikla became self-employed, she started with smoove directly because she already understood and recognized the advantages, in her words, and there was no reason to look elsewhere.
So, Dikla , are you operating the system based on the infrastructure Asaf built for your business?
Dikla: “Asaf built the infrastructure and I work on the system. For every digital stage I build, I create separate infrastructure and automation.”
To understand what’s involved and how it works, Asaf explains the idea behind the digital stage:
“In general, it’s a landing page offering several gifts from several business owners. The gifts are presented on the landing page, which includes a form with checkboxes for all the offered gifts. Then, anyone who receives an update about it, from one of the business owners listed on the stage (as part of their distribution list or through any promotion), marks which gifts they want to receive on the form. Each participating business owner updates something in their personal mailing system, and I, through Zapier automation, connect the form to the business owner’s mailing system if the visitor marks their desired gift. Since each stage has different participating business owners, the process needs to be built anew for each stage.”
Wow, it’s saved me so much time. Checking if they received emails, if they’re suitable, remembering everything. I’m running between six to seven shows a month, each time in a different field, and I need everything to be up to date.
Tell us about a cool automation you’ve implemented recently
Dikla: “The process I have is a very long automation, really, a crazy flow that Asaf built for me. The process starts after I finish a call with a business owner. From that moment, they enter the automated process that sends them an email. If they’re not suitable for the digital stage, they must first go through a digital preparation course, which familiarizes them with the topic. Those who are suitable start receiving a series of messages tailored to the stage they are in, in addition to a lot of value on what will happen if they decide to take the service. There’s a series of about 15 messages, each emphasizing a different area. They really receive comprehensive support from the moment they decide to participate in this service.
Asaf quickly adds, “It’s important to note that at each stage, the automation checks if they’ve progressed in the process. For example, if it’s before payment, then it needs to send them emails regarding payment. At any point in time, the automation checks if they’ve moved to the post-payment stage, and if not, it continues sending them messages.”
The process starts in Airtable system, which integrates with smoove, where Dikla indicates if the client is suitable or not, and then the corresponding automation is triggered.
All of this, instead of you making these calls personally?
Dikla: “Wow, it’s saved me so much time. Checking if they received emails, if they’re suitable, remembering everything. I’m running between six to seven events a month, each time in a different field, and I need everything to be up to date.”
And how do you manage the operation of this, which is technically complex?
Dikla: “What’s left for me to do is really easy to operate. I just indicate if they’re suitable or not, and the system does everything else for me.”
She adds, with a lovely smile to her partner, that this is just a small example, and “Asaf has many more unique examples of processes he’s done.”
We’d love to hear about such a process!
Asaf: “Okay, so first of all, something very small and common – an automation for a reminder before a call, even with SMS. Sending both an email and an SMS an hour before the call, and if it’s a Zoom call, the link is also included, etc. But, I’ll give an example of an automation I really love and it’s relatively new that I’ve done.
As part of setting up websites, I provide usage licenses for various premium WordPress plugins that cost money. I give them a limited license for a number of months, and I actually have a weekly renewal date for each customer. I’ve defined personal fields for each customer, indicating which plugins they use, what identifies their product in my plugin store, and what date they need to renew the license. Then, in the automation, it sits and waits for two weeks before the date, and starts swinging.”
At this stage, for the benefit of all the challenged, we broke down the next segment into stages, so that it’s clear exactly what happens in Asaf’s automation. You can look at it like a recipe, but with caution, it’s for expert cooks:
* Two weeks before time, the system sends an email with specific details according to each one’s relevant plugins.
* In the email, they receive links for the specific license renewals they use (each sees only what is relevant to them from the email). In addition, there’s a smart link with the plugins themselves, transferring them directly to the shopping cart upon purchase.
* After a week, the automation checks if a renewal purchase was made, and which plugin was renewed (it could be that they only renewed one out of three). The automation checks each one. If none were renewed, an additional reminder email is sent.
* After a few days, they receive another email, and later, also an SMS.
* Three days before the expiration date, if the license isn’t renewed, the automation sends Asaf a notification. Then he can decide what to do with it, whether to contact them and remind them, etc.
* If the customer renews the license, the automation updates their contact details in the system, waits a few days, and adds a year to the renewal date, so that the process starts again next year.
“In fact, I don’t really know what’s happening there,” he shares. “I could suddenly receive an update about a payment in the payment processing system and then remember that it’s been a year and someone needed to renew their license. All this automation is like a spider, built from just three emails and SMS, but with a lot of internal update blocks of the contact person.”
So, are these processes a product of trial and error? Or do you know in advance what the problem is and how to solve it?
Asaf: “Actually, not always do I know in advance, because, for example, like in the process I mentioned, I had a bit of a problem with the conditions, and really, along the way, I understood what I wanted it to be. But automation isn’t built just because I want to build automation; it always comes from a need. For example, I built this automation because at the beginning of the service, there were a few add-ons, and everyone received them. As the service developed over time, more tools were added, and not everyone uses everything. So, I can’t send one generic email to all my clients, and I need to see how to do it specifically for each client, and here, for example, there’s the solution of the targeted email.”
If your clients come to you with some problem, do they come knowing they need automation? Or is it a situation where they come with some business problem, and while thinking about the solution, you come to the conclusion that they need automation?
Asaf: “It definitely happens. First of all, there are those who come and say they want to do automation but they don’t have time and don’t know how to deal with it, and I actually build the process they want for them. We start with a flowchart we build together, and then upload it to the smoove canvas. And there are those who come with some problem, who don’t use the word ‘automation.’ They do understand that there’s something here that can be improved, so I tell them that with such and such, we can build the process for them in the system, and it may require integration with other external systems.”
What’s your favorite feature in the system?
Asaf: “I would say the support form. seriously. It sounds funny, but really,” he laughs. “I see it as smoove serving me, and not the other way around, so all the tools there serve me, and when I lack something, I bring up my ideas. But sometimes I have an idea that I don’t know how to implement in the system, and I ask for support, and they also give me ideas. It’s really a feature that’s not just ‘I don’t know how to do something,’ but more on the strategic planning level. A few days ago, I received a very efficient offer from one of the support team members, for a problem that arose for me in planning one of the automations for a client. Something I hadn’t thought of myself. Many times, I also consult with the support team, and not just ask questions for knowledge.”
Dikla: “For me, what’s most convenient is distribution lists. In my account, I have dozens of lists, divided into categories and subcategories. Each digital stage event essentially communicates to a specific area, so each area has a different list, and it makes a lot of order for me.”
And finally, your tip for working with the system
To always check which system will provide the best solutions in the best way. That means, it’s not just the solution, but also that you won’t have to break your head about how to implement that solution.
“And with smoove – just start learning. Do things yourself, experiment, play on the canvas, and learn how to do things on your own.”
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Wow, This is truly inspiring and thought-provoking.
Firstly, it highlights the potential of automation to alleviate the burden of repetitive manual tasks in business operations. The resulting time savings, heightened productivity, and improved performance quality significantly enhance overall efficiency.
Secondly, it suggests categorizing distribution lists into manageable categories and subcategories, particularly useful for handling extensive contact lists.
And last, we can see here the versatility of automation in addressing various business needs, showcasing its near-universal applicability in modern-day operations.
